What was God doing before…



About Mike

Hello, I am an atheist because of reason and personal experience. I am a father of THREE lovely living kids and two dead embryos, married to a lovely Christian Catholic devoted woman. Yes, black and white can coexist as long as there is respect and love, which is something abstracted from any belief or religion. I do not claim absolute truth and not 100% sure that a God does not exist somewhere out there. The scientific method is what I use to connect to reality. If there is something I don't understand, then it is because i don't understand, not because god exists. In case you haven't noticed, I am a native Arab, and English is my third language (yes there is second language). I like reading the Bible and the Quran and the critics of both of them. I also love watching documentaries especially astronomy, cosmology, Quantum Physics, and new discoveries in science in general, and Physics in particular.
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52 Responses to What was God doing before…

  1. God is not limited to time as we are. He is the Alpha and Omega.

    • john zande says:

      A & O require ‘time’ to be meaningful, so you haven’t answered the question.

      • Yes, I did. God is not limited to time. He is the beginning and the end. Just because you can’t fathom the Truth doesn’t mean that it is not meaningful, and it certainly does not make it any less true.

      • john zande says:

        Sorry, but you didn’t. Beginning and end imply time. I’m afraid its you who is having problems with imagination here.

      • You are the type that Jesus referred to when asked why he taught in parables, ‘Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not them…This is why I speak to them in parables: Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand….You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

      • john zande says:

        Well, Aesop’s spun far, far better parables than Jesus, but I guess you’re slightly biased on the matter, correct?

      • Probably. Jesus is a close, personal friend of mine, not to mention my Savior and Lord.

      • Mike says:

        Oh really? Can he talk to you? In English??? Can you record a conversation? Can you take a photo with him? Can he make you a miracle that no human can do, like growing a limb for an amputee? Or were you referring to the imaginary friend of yours for adults?

      • Yes, He talks to me in English. Yes, he has made miracles for me that no human can do; not just once or twice either. I experience the miraculous daily.

        I often write what I hear him speak. You are welcome to read it on my blog under the category ‘Prophetic Word.’ Here is a link to the last thing I publically shared that I heard him speak: https://desertroseinbloom.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/a-perspective-shift-changes-everything/

      • Mike says:

        Ok Emily… You are a dreamer… If I give you my email address, will you please send me a photo of Jesus with you in attachment and maybe a recording your conversation?

      • I gave you a link to the last public thing that I posted I heard. You do not have eyes to see, if you did, you would see Christ clearly. You have no desire to know God. Your opinions of him will manifest in how you see and perceive him. You would not submit to Christ if he were standing in front of you in the flesh. He lives in me and speaks through me and you tell me I am a dreamer. You wouldn’t submit if I showed you magnificent physical miracles, if you are unable to accept his word when they are spoken through me. I am part of his body. I am flesh and blood.

        If you are truly seeking him, you will find him.

      • Mike says:

        I have no other option but to tell you that here is a special place for people with symptoms like you. It is called psychiatric hospital.

      • And the place prepared for people like you is hell.

      • Mike says:

        Oh I’m afraid! But Why? For not believing? A guy will roast me for eternity just for not believing in him? And you call him an all-loving and caring? I’m afraid you are worshiping a dictator!

      • The meaning of ‘eternal,’ when referencing a length of time in which people that have rejected Christ will suffer is debatable among some very respectable theologians. I think the best you can hope for is that you will cease to exist after being judged and rewarded for what you did while in your body. Don’t put it off on God that you have no desire to be with him. He has forgiven and made a way for you to receive eternal life. Not every seed that falls to the grown becomes what it has the possibility of becoming. It must first die to what it once was and be buried to become all that existed within it to become. Jesus was the first born among many brothers. We are the true evolution of humanity; those that receive the forgiveness of sins freely offered and thus have received eternal life. Call him what you want, view him as a dictator, cruel and unfair. These things are not true at all. If he was a dictator, he wouldn’t have given us a free will and saved all the messiness and pain of sin from taking place altogether. He thought it worth the risk, and the loss He would suffer, and gave us a choice. If he didn’t care, he certainly wouldn’t have humbled himself and come into the world through a woman, experiencing fully what we have to go through in the world, in human flesh, allow himself to be crucified in order to take the sin of the whole world on his own body so that we could have eternal life. If you want to take this life at face value, live for yourself, then you will die in your sin. But if you die to yourself while in this body, if you invite the Spirit of God into your heart, your body will die, but your spirit will live and you will receive a new body, free from the ravages of the sin nature, and become all that God had in mind when he created man and women in his image; a fully evolved human being. As Christ is, so we will be. The Spirit of God that He gives us when we believe is a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

        Yes, God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God and God in them. God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.

      • Mike says:

        God is love, but if you don’t love him back he’d fry you in hell! I smell compulsory love there is no option at all here!

        How is the death of Jesus and his rising considered a miracle? Don’t you believe he is God or not? Don’t you believe he is omnipotent or not? Do you think that God can die? You believe that God doesn’t die, so where is the miracle? Whom are you trying to fool? If it was my grandfather coming back from death then I’d consider it a miracle, but your gor doesn’t die, and he hided himself in the grave then appeared after some time, where is the miracle?

      • Enough. You are full of pride; your heart is hard; you’re bitter and angry and not at all pleasent to talk to. You love your dellusion and lies, so I will leave them with you and depart. You believe him evil? Then so be it. Experience him exactly how you believe if that is how you prefer to use your power of faith. I will not talk in circles with you anymore. I will leave you to the darkness that you love and deserve.

      • Mike says:

        Ha ha ha ha
        Well, thanks by stopping by. You are a dreamer young lady. There is no God, no heaven, no afterlife. There is one sure thing: life and death after. We are here, enjoy your life, make the best of it, don’t hurt the others, be gentle, tender and caring! That is all there is and all we need. No need for a fable to be good. I can be good without god (if at all a God exist).

      • john zande says:

        I have a personal relationship with my toaster. It loves me unconditionally, and it answers me when I talk to it.

      • You are not the first person to mock Jesus, spit on him, and laugh in his face and I am sure you won’t be the last.

      • john zande says:

        Who’s talking about Jesus? I’m informing you of the love I have for my toaster.

      • I am telling the truth. You are lying.

      • john zande says:

        The toaster warns of people like you, Hard of heart, will deny His existence, will lie and cheat. He loves you, though… He will always love you, and be there always for breakfast, for He is true. For He is Truth.

      • Mike says:

        In the name of the toaster, the dryer, and the washing machine.

        Our Toaster in heaven,
        hallowed be your toast
        Your cheese come,
        your will be done in the kitchen as it is on the table
        Give us this day our daily toast
        and forgive us our burned bread
        as we also have forgiven our debtors.
        And lead us not into the Microwave,
        but deliver us from the fridge

        The toaster died for us

      • john zande says:

        But He has risen!

      • I was once like you. Thankfully, I humbled myself and admitted that I was a sinner and received the free gift of salvation made possible by Christ’s death on the cross.

      • john zande says:

        My toaster is patient, and all-loving. You will return to its warmth one day, I know.

    • If God is not limited by time, how does it know when a certain moment happens since the bible has this god acting from cause and effect? Please do show evidence of your supposed “truth”. As for why Jesus supposedly used parables, it was to remove free will and the ability to make an informed decision to certain people, reflected in the claims of Romans 9 and its supposed actions in Isaiah 6.

      It’s always interesting when a Christian must use ellipses to edit their bible.

      “10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
      11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.15
      For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

      Which is interesting Isaiah doesn’t quite say what the author of the gospel claims but this ““‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
      10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes.[a]
      Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts,and turn and be healed.” (Isaiah 6)

      Which is what Isaiah supposed did to the Israelites with this god power, an act that supposedly had happened and not a prophecy at all, and showing that people do not choose to do this but that this god does it to them.

      • The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

        For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

      • Mike says:

        Thanks for the word salad Emily. I’m still waiting for you to post your photo with Jesus or God…

      • Well, Emily, rather than answering my questions, I get threats of how your god is going to get me. Christians have been making the same claims quite a few years and your god is noticeably impotent when it comes to fulfilling the threats its believers make in its name. One would think that either it doesn’t exist or that it likes me much more than you.

        You make the same baseless claims that all other theists of other religions make. You all want to make believe that your god is plain to everyone but since everyone makes the same claim, you have to show that it is *your* god that created the universe. Can you? Show us that its your version of your god that is the right and no other Christians and no other religion’s is. Show me that it isn’t the Christian god that Church of Christ people worship, that Mormons worship, that Jehovah Witnesses worship, that Baptists worship or that Presbyterians worship. Show me that it isn’t Allah, or the Wiccan Goddess, or the Great Spirit of the Native American tribes, etc.

        There is no reason to glorify your god since there is not one scrap of evidence that it exists. Not one bit of evidence that supports any of the essential events of the bible. Not one claim that another religion hasn’t used and that you can support. You just make threats and play pretend that you are superior. The only people who might be afraid of your threats and your god are people just like you, willfully ignorant who have no answers to anyone’s questions.

        Where is this wrath of god, Emily? I have a lovely life. Tell us of how this god is showing its “wrath”. What is it doing? If you can’t tell us, then there is no reason to believe you at all, and no reason at all to fear any of the nonsense you try to spread. It’s a shame that your religion depends on fear and ignorance to exist.

        Still waiting for evidence of your “truth”. I suspect I shall be waiting for a long long time. I wonder, what will happen when you are on your deathbed, and your god hasn’t come back or has done one thing you have promised it will do. Shall I consider you a false prophet?

      • I’m headed out the door so don’t have time to read the whole thing… I responded with scripture. It is truth. Call me whatever you want. And I am sure you’re right God probably does love you a whole lot more than I do, but that’s not saying much. I don’t have a whole lot of patience for assholes that spend their time trying to bash God. I’m certain God is infinitely more patient than me. If it were up to me Id have fried have the world by now. I am personally thankful God is pmore merciful than me because I certainly wouldn’t still be alive, let alone a recipient of his grace and mercy, if he wasn’t. I much prefer the company of people that know they are sinners in need of a Savior. Not pompous atheist who somehow hate God I don’t believe exists.

      • Emily, you do not believe in other gods, but the claims of those believers are as well supported as yours. I believe none of you since none of you have any evidence. Your arguments are no better supported than those of a Muslim who is sure that you are wrong and that you are damned for not believing in something that has no evidence to support it. Your claim that your scripture is “truth” is just like someone who claims that the Qu’ran is “truth” or a Hindu that claims that the stories in the Mahabharata are true. I would ask them for the same evidence that I have asked you for, and would watch them be unable to provide it just as you cannot.

        You certainly are a great example of a Christian. Cursing at people, lying about others, it’s just what I have come to expect from a Christian who has created Christianity in her own image. Your petty fantasies of killing everyone who doesn’t agree with you are very much what I expect from someone who gets angry when someone doesn’t cower when she stamps her foot and offers impotent threats.

        There is no evidence that your god is “infinitely patient”, not in the bible nor in reality. I have read the bible, as a believer and not, and know what it says. Your attempts to misrepresent your religion only work on those who would remain willfully ignorant. Indeed, if this god is merciful, why do we have such pictures as Mike has on his blog page? It seems that this “merciful god” has no problem in letting people starve. Where is the manna? Those quail? It’s great to see you pick and choose what to follow in your bible, Emily. It’s also great to see that your god does nothing to anyone who doesn’t believe in him. We just get people like you who make false claims and claims that will never ever come true.

        No one is a sinner in need of a magical savior that has no evidence that it ever existed. Nothing shows that Adam and Eve exists, and poof, no need for Jesus. No evidence, no flood, no tower of babel, no fabulous palaces and kingdoms, etc. No evidence of a man who was divine, who did miracles at all. No one noticed this man gathering a legion’s worth of men, plus women and children, twice just outside of Jerusalem, a Roman-occupied city. No one noticed that there was an earthquake, or the sky darkening, or the dead walking. Christians can’t agree on when any of this happened, nor can they agree on what happened. Then we get the lovely revenge fantasy of Revelation, where your god supposedly kills everyone who disagrees with it, Jesus Christ rules over all of the Christians for an “eon” and then your god intentionally works with its supposed archenemy, making sure that more people are corrupted by its will and it gets another lovely little bloodbath.

        It appears that nothing frightens a Christian like you more than a person who dares to point at your claims and laugh. Atheists show that your fantasies of being superior than everyone else is false and your god isn’t what you claim. You cannot point out this “wrath”, and that surprises me not one whit. You are no more believable than all of the Christians before, who were sure that their god would return and wreak vengeance against those who pointed out that their claims were wrong.

        Still waiting for your answers and your e

        It is hilarious that you feel you must come to your god’s rescue. I can hate your god just like I can hate other imaginary characters. I can hate the lies that people like you tell in Christianity’s name. I can hate the harm that such beliefs cause.

      • I’m not reading this long tirade… I only skimmed the last comment. It’s tedious and pointless. Jesus loves you but I think your a tireless asshole.

      • Mike says:

        Don’t you love the Christian love and respect! Thanks for the screenshots!

      • Am I supposed to feel guilty or afraid? I don’t. I hate sin, not people. I don’t like some people. You’re one of them. I don’t feel guilt about it At All. You making an ass of yourself by bashing God and Christians, and me pointing out this fact, isn’t hateful. Get over yourself. And don’t get so frantic just because I would likely wipe wicked people off the face of the earth before the appointed time if I were God. Jesus’s disciples felt the same way when they saw a city rejecting Jesus. Sure, he rebuked them for it, so its not as if they went ahead with it, and obviously I won’t be either. If I hated you I certainly wouldn’t have take the time to warn you and tell you the truth. If you want to know what a hateful Christian looks like, they are the ones that aren’t bothering to share their faith when anyone, especially jerks (is the milder, non ‘curse’ word, as you call it, less offensive for you?). I responded to you in a tone that you should best be able to understand, for your benefit. Get over yourself. You don’t know what love is, because you don’t know who God is, so don’t claim that you know how to spot weather or not I am loving just because my words don’t make you feel however it is you believe love should make you feel.

      • Mike says:

        Well, here is one thing you can tell your asinine God: Tell him that Mike tells you: *FUCK YOU, AND FUCK JESUS*

        I guess I have an express ticket to hell then, which is far better than being close to your Hitler-like asinine God. And by the way, show us how your prayers work by praying to your god to make me shut up and I’ll debunk you and your God every single time. I dare you and dare God himself and his son, I mean himself, to stop me. Until then, your prayers are useless and your God is a cunt!

        You left no place for manners by your own comments and I won’t hesitate to reply!

      • That’s hilarious, Emily, since your posts are no shorter.

        I do enjoy when you intentionally lie to excuse yourself. That choice to lie shows me that you again pick and choose from your bible, believing it no more than I do. You should familiarize yourself on how your bible says that your god hates lies and liars, even when they think that they are lying *for* this god (Romans 3).

        Please do keep calling me an “asshole”. It’s the Christian thing to do. Again, there is no evidence that Jesus Christ exists, much less that it loves me.

        I am still waiting for your evidence.

      • Mike says:

        I couldn’t have said this better! A Christian reveals his hatred when pointed out he/she is wrong and when he/she can’t find any justification for their asinine belief. Thank you Emily for proving to the world how hateful and inhuman you are to your human brothers who have ideas different than yours by calling us assholes and willing to fry us if you had the power to do that! You belittle Hitler with your comment! Keep commenting, you are doing a great job demonstrating the original Christian hatred.

      • Emily seems to be most angry that she did not get the external validation she wanted.

      • ‘..they don’t believe exists…’

    • luaydpk says:

      But who and how about concept of God? God or Allah tells us who and what he does…

  2. We can think, think and think a lot. But the fact remains we are smaller than a soil grain for the creator. The point is feel not to think about whys n hows

    • Mike says:

      So we cannot comprehend anything about this god but we are supposed to love him and obey him and believe in him? Aren’t we also supposed to say BAAAAAAAA

      • No, we can comprehend and analyze whatever we want to only if we want to waste our time. Draw a dot on a paper, that’s what our galaxy in whole of the universe. Now try to find yourself in that dot. Impossible, right? It is irrelevant of us asking these questions ’cause we are on this planet for very small time and if we try to solve the creator’s equation we’ll be taking assumptions equal to the number of cells in your body.(May be more) And when we look at all the holy books around, the purpose of this life remains to enjoy the bountiful with also having in the supreme power *only if wants to*

      • Mike says:

        What a fable! So you say that no matter what you try, you will never understand! A very good concept to educate children! Don’t even ask questions kids, because you are too stupid to figure out, so be like animals, eat, drink, have fun, then die. Very good message for humanity!

      • You have a valid point that it’s good to be curious and ask a lot of questions. But then again it’s good to have great questions and cannot have answer for each one of them. And that too when we are being curious about something so powerful. Everything you’ll conclude about God and things related to his forté, you’ll only be in an illusion.

  3. Pingback: Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – external validation | Club Schadenfreude

  4. I’m fearful of entering this conversation, but the atheists in this conversation made some very astute observations.

    1. Mike called Emily a “dreamer” and John compared her voice from God to a voice from a toaster. I’d like to agree with Mike and John. Her voice from God is an extra-biblical revelation. It goes beyond what is written and is prohibited by sound Christians–as much as the extra-biblical revelations of Muhammad or Joseph Smith. This is a form of unfaithfulness to God. It’s like loving your husband AND your lover. She loves God’s words AND her own words. This kind of blended Christianity produces the worst fruit. Jude actually makes reference to false religious leaders and calls them “filthy dreamers.” (Jude 1:8)

    2.Mike also mentioned Hitler. This is insightful because Hitler claimed to be a Christian, yet he blended pseudoscience (eugenics), philosophy (Hegel), Herder’s racial theory, and a hodge-podge of other beliefs in with Christianity, making it impure and unholy. Its fruit was horrifying. Millions suffered and died under this unholy hybrid.

    3. Emily referred to God pouring out his wrath. His wrath is revealed (Romans 1:18-20) IN THE SCRIPTURES, not through signs, as they tell of the need for a flood, or for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but there will be a Day of Wrath when it will finally be poured out upon the earth.

    Yes, God will be angry. He will be angry at ISIS militants who just beheaded Christians. He will be angry at those who shed the innocent blood of aborted babies. He will be angry at those who killed innocent people in the gas chambers at Auschwitz. He will be angry at those who rape, murder, kill, and steal, yet don’t turn away from their sins. He will be angry at greedy men who hoard their money and let little children starve when they could have done something to feed them, and at warlords who confiscate the food given for little children, and at those who sell girls into sexual slavery. All of them who don’t repent and receive Jesus as a covering for their sins will receive the wrath of the Lamb.

    Would you feel angry if your beloved sister or daughter was repeatedly raped and then murdered? Wouldn’t you have anger? Would that be wrong for you to feel anger?

    But because of the propitiating atonement of Jesus and his blood being poured on the mercy seat, wrath is being held back for a time–until all are given a chance to hear the good news that there’s a chance for forgiveness for our sins. “Today is the day of salvation!” Don’t treasure up wrath, but receive salvation.

    Mike says: “God is love, but if you don’t love him back he’d fry you in hell! I smell compulsory love there is no option at all here!”

    But if you’re drowning and someone throws you a life line and you reject it, how can you blame the person who tried to save you if you chose to reject their life line?

    4. Clubschadenfreude says Emily is a liar. I would agree. Her prophecies are not the truth. They are the inventions of her own mind. But Club is also lying when she says there’s no evidence for the existence of Jesus—something I’m sure we don’t want to rehash here, but NO evidence? Really?

    I actually think the criticisms of the church by atheists are insightful. I used to cheer when Christopher Hitchens would heroically attack the Catholic priests to their faces about their sins of pedophilia. (I miss Hitchens. Why was he so endearing to so many Christians?) The church needs to listen to criticisms and be humble and repent rather than be proud and hateful.

    I’ve been kicked out of nearly every Christian church I’ve been in, and like Jesus, I’ve discovered that in many ways I would rather hang out with the atheists and sinners than to be with the religious crazies out there.

    Please don’t listen to Emily when she swears at you and tells you to go to hell. She’s not an obedient Christian. You are all precious to Jesus. He desires to bless you. He loves you very much. There’s still time to receive him. <3

    • Mike says:

      Diana, you are free to comment, even though we are completely running different ideas. At least, you didn’t come here to insult and impose your idea rather than to discuss, which I appreciate. So please don’t be fearful of commenting

  5. Peter says:

    Hi Diana, yours is a refreshing perspective. Thanks for offering your views. I just wish that these forums would allow civil interchanges between people of different views.

    Christian history is littered with ‘shipwrecks’ caused by people thinking they were hearing God when they were not. The case of Edward Irving is one that modern Christians would do well to heed.

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